Avid vs. Final Cut Pro. My take.
By S Simmons. Filed in Avid editing, Final Cut Pro |
I recently read a great article comparing Avid editing software to Apple’s Final Cut Pro. It pointed out a lot of the issues/differences between the two packages. I wanted to add a few more that have always bugged me. The article was divided into 2 categories, the big stuff and small stuff. Most of my comparisons between the two are mainly small, workflow related issues so that’s where I’ll (b***h) focus.
Trim, trim, gimme some good trim.
The Avid trim tool is by far the greatest non-linear editing tool to be coded by a human being. It is very functional and very intuitive. From the simplest double roller trim to the most complex asynchronous multi-track trim, it delivers. And the ability to play out a slip or slide edit makes it even more useful. Plus there is the great little progress line that plays along in the timeline as you trim. It’s perfect visual feedback. Yea, I know that FCP added jkl (dynamic) trimming recently but its implementation is still light years behind what Avid has perfected.
Avid’s enter key is my friend.
When I want to move my current time marker forward (or backward) on the timeline I can type + 3 0 0 on the keypad, push enter and I move forward 3 seconds. I push enter again and I move forward 3 more seconds, and so on and so on. With FCP I push + 3 0 0 and I move forward 3 seconds. I push enter again and … nothing. It may seem like just a minor thing but this is a fantastic way to navigate the timeline. It is one of the biggest things I miss in FCP.
Cheap plug-ins are worth their code in gold.
Yea Avid is more expensive and exclusive and probably wants to keep their architecture that way but the plethora of cheap FCP plug-ins is sweet. An editor shouldn’t rely on their plug-ins to make their career but they are handy to have and I’ve found myself choosing FCP over Avid Xpress Pro when I know I’ve got an fx heavy cut coming.
Keyframing and such.
Avid recently added the ability to open up the effect editor on certain fx to show a specific timeline for keyframing individual effect parameters. It’s too little too late. FCP’s tabbed keyframing paradigm has worked from day one even on some of the professional plug-ins where there are tons of parameters. Now, if only Apple would fix that annoying screen redraw thing that can happen when you add a keyframe. It’s been there since like version ONE!
Sensible keyboard defaults.
Yea you can map the FCP keyboard now, and yea you can probably map more things than Avid but let’s be honest; The default FCP setup is D U M B. Only a software coder (and not a real world editor) would think that you need to use the distort tool (push D) more than you would need to clear an in point (push option I). I go to IN and clear OUT waaaayyy too much to push a modifier key each time I want to do that. I’m amazed at how many FCP/Avid editors (who use FCP more these days) still use the default FCP keyboard. I mapped mine to match Avid the day that version arrived. And even used Quick Keys some before then.
The only thing the Avid D|S does better.
Sure the Avid D|S is an ultra high end finishing system but in my world it’s used as an offline system as well. And for that it is clumsy! But I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t know it as well as Media Composer / Xpress and FCP. But it does have one GREAT thing. In Avid you have to go into segment mode to do a lot of direct timeline manipulation. In FCP you just click and drag at anytime. Both of these methods are great. In Avid D|S there is a little button that allows you to toggle between these two modes (in a sense) so you get the best of both worlds. I would luuuuv to see that added to FCP. I don’t think it would ever be put into Avid because it is totally different from the Avid way of thinking about the timeline.
Auxiliary timecode.
Aux timecode is very useful when editing a music video that used a timecode slate for syncing. The way it’s done in Avid (or the way I do it) is subclip all those takes and sync by the timecode slate. Perfect sync. When I tried to do this in FCP the first time I found, to my absolute horror, that when I would add an aux timecode to a new subclip, the aux timecode of the other subs from the same master clip would change! The only work around was to capture each take as its own master clip. That is a logging nightmare. I wish someone would explain to me why the aux tc ripples like it does in FCP. It makes no sense!. None at all.
Matchframing.
Master clip > sub clip > grouped clip > freeze frame. If I use this workflow then in Avid I can go in the exact reverse by match framing from the freeze frame and keep match framing my way back to the master clip. Very easy and efficient. In FCP match frame does not work this way. The are more match framing options as far as what to match frame to but it is almost too smart for its own good. It’s just another example of Avid intuitiveness and refinement. And then there is the “find bin” command which FCP doesn’t haveÃ.
FCP’s pice de rsistance.
It’s Quicktime based. No format conversions, no taking up extra disk space, no creating files. Quicktime is elegant and works well. Enough said.
That’s just a few of the things that I see as pluses and minuses between these two fine programs. I’m sure there are more that I have yet to discover. But the most important thing to remember is that these programs are just tools, like a wrench or a drill, and they can produce equally good results. The most important factor in determining the worth of either Avid or Final Cut Pro is the editor running show.
Wednesday, March 1st 2006 at 7:17 am
nice and thorough.
Thursday, March 9th 2006 at 9:55 pm
Terrific stuff.
Good points, all.
On the next go-around I’ll include some of these things in the article (with proper attribution, of course).
Friday, March 10th 2006 at 11:39 am
Thanks Patrick.
What’s funny is (and I’m sure you felt the same after writing your fine article) is that I could have continued that list for another few pages!!
Tuesday, May 2nd 2006 at 2:59 pm
huh?
Sunday, August 20th 2006 at 5:02 am
What editblog meant is that we all have lists of things that we like about Avid or FCP.
For instance, neither editblog nor Patrick mentioned is film editing. I mean 24fps film with sync sound and 35mm or 16mm conform at the end of it. At this point, FCP is light years behind Avid. I made the mistake of editing a short film with FCP once (though I love the software for PAL or NTSC “normal” formats), never again. Also, FCP doesn’t know anything about BWF, the sound format of the future – and of the present actually…
Thursday, November 9th 2006 at 7:48 am
Comming from a Final Cut Pro background, I find Avid’s trim tool quite difficult to use. Avid uses an iterative approach while Final Cut Pro is more goal based. I’ll try to explain this with an example.
While playing the timeline, I notice a clip is too long. In Final Cut Pro, I will stop playback at the moment I’ve seen enough – let’s say 11 frames before the edit – , grab the roll tool and drag the edit towards the timeline cursor (handline in Avid speak?). The snap function will cause my trim to be exactly 11 frames long. So, first I set my goal – I want the clip to end here – and then do the trim in one move.
Avid wants me to select the edit before I can start fiddling with the trim controls. It takes a few keypresses before I can find the right amount of frames to trim and – for me – it’s easier to loose the big picture while trimming.
I have to say that Avids trim tool is miles better than Final Cut Pro’s trim window with regard to keyboard navigation and actions, but I almost never use the trim window in Final Cut Pro. I trim most of the shots in the timeline with the mouse and will resort to the trim window only for tricky match cuts.
Thursday, November 9th 2006 at 8:17 am
Great points on trimmng Ben.
That kind of reinforces how FCP is much more timelines based in its tools and its mousing action. While I tend to stay on the keyboard if at all possible it is nice to have all of those edit manipulation tools if I need them, which Avid doesn’t really have. That said, the Avid trim tool window (trim mode in Avid-speak) is miles better and I find that I can fine tune the edit much faster with it than even any FCP tools. The ability to slip and slide with the play buttons is heaven. In a perfect world… both would add both!
Friday, November 10th 2006 at 12:38 am
Ben, here’s a quick way to make life easy in Avid for your trimming. When you find your edit point, hit the in or out key. Then go into trim mode, and drag the edit while holding the “Ctrl” button. The edit should snap to the in point. (If there’s too many other close things that it snaps to, just zoom in on the timeline.) In general, Avid’s implementation of the snapping function can always be triggered by the Ctrl function, and I use it countless times a day when editing.
Now if anyone could tell me how to add audio keyframes in the timeline, rather than in the Viewer window, in Final Cut Pro, I would be very happy. I can audio mix great in Avid, but FCP stymies me every time, which left me pretty shocked to see that FCP got the edge on this site. (Personally, I just leave automation auto gain on all the time in avid, and whenever I need to keyframe, just select the tracks and an “N” key or two, a couple mouse drags, and I’m done.)
Friday, November 10th 2006 at 6:11 am
I knew about Avid Ctrl click = snap but I never thought to use it with in and out points. Thanks Doug.
Audio keyframes in FCP’s timeline: enable Clip Overlays (Option-W or the button in the lower left of the timeline) and use the Pen tool.
Friday, November 10th 2006 at 8:00 am
“Now if anyone could tell me how to add audio keyframes in the timeline, rather than in the Viewer window, in Final Cut Pro, I would be very happy.”
Doug, as Ben mentioned above you can use the pen tool to add audio keyframes in the FCP timeline… after enabling the overlays to see the rubber bands. But you can also turn on Record Audio Keyframes (shift+command+K) and adjust the audio mixer and have FCP record those audio keyframes in realtime. It’s like Avid’s Automation Gain. I have mapped this command to my F10 key and I just toggle it on while playing back the timeline and it is quite handy and easy to use.
I wrote an article here on recording audio keyframes in both apps and that kinda started this whole comparison. I think it may help. Avid has changed just a bit with the newest Xpress Pro upgrades but the basic are still the same. Here’s the article:
http://www.scottsimmons.tv/blog/2006/07/31/recording-audio-keyframes/
Friday, November 10th 2006 at 3:06 pm
Thanks both of you, I knew there had to be a way to do it. I knew about overlays and have used them for rough audio mixing but kept hunting for an “Add Keyframe” button a la Avid. I still have trouble getting my head around the tool-driven nature of FCP, even though I started on it.
And thanks for the link I saw the blog but I missed the link the first time to the more detailed article. Personally, I’ve always just relied on timeline manipulation of keyframes rather than the Automation Gain, but I’m also largely working on projects that have external audio mixes down the road, so I can be pretty raw about things as long as it’s audible for network viewings.
Sunday, November 26th 2006 at 12:05 pm
You can toggle in and out of segment modes by programming the buttons on your mouse in the Mouse Settings. Even Xpress Pro offers this functions. I use a Microsoft Explorer 4.0 mouse, which has two additional buttons on the left side of the mouse in reach of my thumb.
I click one of the two of these buttons to go into, and back out of, Segment Mode (extract/splice), and Segment Mode (lift/overwrite). It is super fast, and done while in movement to the clip in the timeline. If you saw me editing in the timeline, you’d miss this because of how fast it is. You’d assume I had the exact same function you have in FCP, but with way more control. And that is the truth. Avid does give you more control. You just have to be aware that the mouse buttons can be assigned in your Avid to make instant use of the segment modes.
Regarding compositing effects, I use AvidFX, and I find I can do anything FCP can do and more. FCP too can use Boris RED 4, which is essentially what AvidFX is. I don’t see FCP with a timeline advantage considering no one is just going to leave either NLE all by itself. You have to factor in the studio toolkit options, and in Media Composer, you have to factor in the better default plug-ins like SpectraMatte and animatte. Those make a lot of difference. In any case, AvidFX added to any Avid timeline levels the compositing playing field, and brings us back to the editor itself. Media Management in Avid is far away superior to FCP. Native MXF is winner too. I think Avid is easily more versatile with the rest of the industry. FCP is great for stand-alone.
Just my two cents.
-Alex
Tuesday, January 2nd 2007 at 4:52 pm
Great resource. Keep up the good work.
Thursday, March 1st 2007 at 9:13 am
There’s has only ever been one MAJOR thing I have noticed with FCP that really wrangles me.
When you play out or digitse you don’t see a timecode.
It’s not a problem when you have your deck in the room with you. But in a busy edit house you often have the deck in a Machine room somewhere (Not least cause of the noise)
You often wonder how far you are into a programme, or how much you have digitised and have no idea!
Thursday, March 1st 2007 at 5:40 pm
Amen Chris.
The fact there is almost no feedback while capturing footage is a huge pain. Avid’s capture tool with it’s ability to subclip and place markers and actually see timecode is head and shoulders about what FCP offers.
Check out this comparison of the Avid and FCP capture tools for more detailed differences.
Monday, February 11th 2008 at 7:35 am
I have a Q about Avid MC effects use. Lets say I have a video clip on track V1. Then I put another clip on top of that on track V2. I color correct the clip on V2, then I add a Picture-in-picture effect to it. No problem so far. But let’s say I really need to add another effect to the clip, it doesn’t matter what. When I do this (using the Alt key), whatever 2nd effect I add to V2 also effects V1! Is this normal or is there really something wrong with my Avid as some have told me? I’ve reloaded system software, had all the upgrades installed, even had the tech look at it. He said all I could do was “Step-in” to the clip, add my other effects there and step-out. That works but I can’t see my changes in relationship to the other video on the timeline. Thoughts? Love the blog by the by.
Monday, February 11th 2008 at 11:20 am
Dave, I think that’s correct that you would have to step-in to make it work. The downside to the way Avid does effects is that if you apply more than one effect to a clip you have to “step into” it to change the parameters and then you can’t really reference audio or what is in the timeline. But it shouldn’t effect what’s on V1 if you have applied this effect to a clip in V2. It’s kinda hard to say as I’d have to see it. I’ll try it myself when I get back in Avid world next week.
Thursday, April 24th 2008 at 5:45 am
Dave,
I have encountered this situation as well when building multi-effect heavy sequences.
There is a way to monitor other effects above the level you step-in at.
1.) Step in and add the effect or effects
2.) Step out to the full timeline
3.) Select the segment tool and doubleclick on the clip with nested effects
The clip layers should uncollapse within the main timeline view. Now you can keyframe each effect individually while monitoring the result of all effects. To re-collapse the effect layer, just doubleclick it again with the segment tool.
Hope this helps!
I do wish Avid used a similiar effects workflow such as After Effects in which effects were assigned purely on a clip by clip basis; however, one of the powerful things about Avid’s approach, is being able to instantly effect all video globally if the need arises. Maybe they can reconfigure the effects system to allow for isolated track effects and global effects without all the stepping nonsense.
When working on another editor’s timeline, I sometimes find myself going “That doesn’t seem right” only to discover upon stepping in that there is 6-layers of effects on a clip. This is not very obvious from the timeline display.
Tuesday, September 23rd 2008 at 9:59 pm
I am fairly new to AVID, I have used FCP since 1.0 in 1999. While editing on an Adrenaline I seem to keep getting my timeline out of sync when trimming. Is this a common problem with the AVID? Is there an easy way for me to avoid this? As long as I was working in a linear fashion nothing went wrong, but when I started working on elements within the timeline everything after a certain point would go out of sync.
Wednesday, September 24th 2008 at 12:23 pm
Phil, you need to turn on Sync Locks. There’s a button near the bottom of the timeline to turn then on and they will put a little mark in the patch bay of the timeline. Kinda hard to explain where so look up sync lock in the help and you’ll find it. I always work with them on. You can think of it like, in FCP they are always on and you can’t turn them off. In Avid you have the option.
Thursday, December 11th 2008 at 3:31 pm
What I really miss is the logging work flow in Final Cut for P2 media. We log everything, but in Avid we haven’t found an equivalent process. Any suggestions? I know there’s a logging program that comes in the pack, but it doesn’t seem to work for P2 media?
Thursday, December 11th 2008 at 4:28 pm
Lindsey, since there’s no built-in tool in Avid like the Log and Transfer in FCP I think you are out of luck. But since you can edit native .MXF from P2 cards maybe you import them natively and make some notes like logging and then bring in the clip to media later?
Tuesday, July 7th 2009 at 3:47 pm
Dave S. In regards to your question on applying effects on V2 with a P-I_P; it’s because you need to use P-I-P as your ‘top’ effect and put all the other effects inside by nesting them (stepping in). If you don’t, whatever effects you put on top of your PIP, will affect any layers below. Picture in Picture is just that, a picture in a picture, and works as an overlay.
Tuesday, October 13th 2009 at 6:17 pm
I currently use both FCPS 3.0 and Avid Xpress Pro. Avid by force, FCPS by choice. I have noticed that Avid does seem to shine in linear editing. It tends to be the favorite of the, shall I say, seasoned veterans of the film industry; the guys (and gals) that have been doing this since before Jobs even hatched the Apple egg. It does seem to cater to that crowd. Whereas FCPS seems to be more oriented on the point-and-click “non-linear” generation. This is why you see it used more in Indie films and why it is gaining in popularity. The article I read seems to be fairly dated to some of Final Cut Studio 3’s features. Final Cut Server, for example is an excellent way to manage projects across multiple stations and watching the import of a sequence has been in there since FCPS 2.
Additionally, an Avid workstation tends to only have the editor. Multiple other brand’s software is often included to do some of the other work (i.e. AfterEffects ((which every film-maker should own and know backwards and forwards)), Fireworks, or Avid’s own: Pro Tools). Whereas FCPS seems to be more oriented to an all-in-one solution with FCP, Soundtrack Pro, Motion, DVD Studio Pro, Loops Creation Tool, etc.
I prefer FCP, just because I belong to this point-and-click generation. However, I will not diminish, in any way, the merits of the seasoned Avid system.