Editing P2 media on Avid
By S Simmons. Filed in Editing |
We’ve long been doing good work with Panasonic P2 media in Final Cut Pro. FCP’s elegant Log and Transfer tool does a good job of allowing the logging, organization and import of P2 media. Avid recently added support for P2 media so how does it stand up? In short: it works, but not as elegantly.
Under the Avid file menu there is now an option for Import P2. You have 2 options, Import>Clips to Bin… or Import>Media. More on what they each do in a bit. All new versions of Avid Media Composer and Avid Xpress Pro support the import of P2 media. What Avid doesn’t do is give you a transfer tool with good feedback. Since we usually always compare Avid to Final Cut Pro I miss the fact that the FCP transfer tool allows you to look at and scan around your clip, rename the clips from the rather cryptic names that the camera assigns and even mark IN and OUT point to import only parts of a clip. The idea behind the FCP Log and Transfer tool is to give you some kind of control over the media being imported just like you have with a tape based capture tool. It makes perfect sense that you would want some kind of control over any disc based media as well.
Avid works differently. The most notable option is that there isn’t any kind of tool, just 2 menu items:
With a recent release Avid added the support for MFX media as can be seen in the media folder on a hard drive:
Because of this MXF support (the old OMF format is only for Standard Def project these days, MXF is the only media creation option in HD) it has the ability to read media directly off of the P2 cards, or cards that have been backed up on a hard drive with the proper directory structure. To work directly with MXF in Final Cut Pro you need a tool like Raylight. While it’s great to see the MXF media directly there was one annoying thing I noticed while testing before I began the current project. Whenever I quit the Avid application, upon restarting all the P2 media was offline. A quick reimport and it would reconnect but it is annoying. I did find that this is normal behavior as stated in the Avid help files:
A progress box appears as the clips import. When the import is complete, the clips appear in the active bin. You can play and edit the clips; the media resides on the P2 card. If you leave the application and then restart it, you see the clips in the bin, but the media is offline. You need to import the clips again to continue working with them.
The way to avoid this little hurdle is to use the Import P2 > Media option. After first importing via Clips to Bin… if you then select your master clips and choose the Import P2 > Media option the app will then copy all of the selected clips to your media drive specified in the Media Creation settings:
This can also be a good time to transcode to one of Avid’s DNxHD codecs. Like Apple ProRes it allow for “mastering-quality 8-bit or 10-bit HD media at standard-definition (SD) data rates and file sizes.” To capture in the DNxHD codec you need an Avid Adrenaline system with the DNxHD option but you can transocode to it in the Media Composer software version. As I mentioned above the Avid implementation of P2 isn’t as elegant as FCP’s. But it does work. It would be nice to see Avid add some kind of tool in a future release to make it work more elegantly and allow for better organization upon import. Because after all, a lot of non-linear editing is all about organization.
UPDATE: Click on over to Avid’s own site for a video demonstration of the P2 workflow and how to do an offline/online style edit. It’s makes even more sense to see it in action. Thanks for AE Portal News for pointing this out.
Monday, November 12th 2007 at 4:46 pm
Hey Scott,
Just thought I’d make some of your comments more clear for the average viewer. Avid was an early adopter of .mxf. Media Composer could capture .mxf way back at version 1.5.1 (release date 8/31/04). Media Composer has had the ability to play native P2 HD directly from the P2 card or the copied P2 media since version 2.1 (approximate release date 1/31/05). For those who want to know, the most resent version of Media Composer is 2.7.x. One of the best things about working with P2 in the Avid is that there is no extra steps needed to work with the media.
In FCP you have to “import/flip” which can be a lengthy process, unless you purchase that Raylight utility you had mentioned. And this utility alludes to be specifically for working from the P2 cards themselves.
As for your comment “Because after all, a lot of non-linear editing is all about organization.” as a Media Composer user you “should” understand the foundation of the Avid product line and “know” it is vastly superior in Media Management/”organization” than FCP and any Avid editor with 2yrs experience would disagree with your statement.
This is one of many reasons why 90% of all major motion picture releases and 80% of all shows airing on prime time broadcasts are cut on Avid.
But most people wouldn’t know this if the only info they get is from DV magazine and Creative Cow.
My 2 cents.
Monday, November 12th 2007 at 5:23 pm
Todd,
I agree totally that Avid’s media management is far ahead of FCPs. But the Avid implementation of P2 has one huge flaw… it’s that you have to reconnect mxf files after shutting down the application. If you have a project with hours and hours of media and lots of subclips and group clips then I don’t know if this is something I could live with or would trust over a lengthly edit. You mention the process of “import/flip” that FCP requires but you need to do the same thing in Avid via the Import > P2 Media command to avoid reimporting the mxf media each time you open the app. The early adoption of mxf was really “under the hood” for most users and really is most useful now with P2 media. Let’s just hope that Avid will update its P2 implementation and give us some kind of tool and fix the reimporting upon restarting the application. Trying to explain that to a client after a crash can’t be very much fun.
Monday, November 12th 2007 at 6:19 pm
Scott,
The original way of working with P2 media was to leave it on the P2 card and Consolidate the media to a Project/Bin. This is still a valid work flow. There is no import or flip, it just quickly copies the files to the MXF directory and makes the files a part of the project and on local storage. I don’t believe you will have missing media issues working this way. This scenario is not an import or flip it’s just a copy with the addition of meta data that gets tagged to the files as it copies from the card to the drive. Overall, until P2 cards get much bigger and less expensive, copying (Avid) or flipping (FCP) is the best workflow.
FYI…Avid and Panasonic’s implementation of MXF are both OP-Atom. Which means they are the same MXF structure allowing it to play natively in Avid’s timeline.
Sony’s XDCam is not OP-Atom but OP-1A, which means that currently, Avid does have to flip it to the OP-Atom for playback in the Avid timeline.
This is similar to FCP having to import/flip the .mxf file to work in its timeline. I’ll bet money that Avid will have native Sony MXF(OP-1A) support in it’s timeline before the FCP timeline will support Panasonic’s (OP-Atom) MXF.
How many years was it before FCP caught up with (copied): DNxHD (3), Open Timeline (4), Multicam (10). The newer “import” feature from Avid may be a little buggy, but the original work flow is still an option and in the end a faster way of working with P2 in a NLE.
Monday, November 12th 2007 at 7:29 pm
My worry about losing media would be not on the importing media workflow but the “clips to bin” method. It probably would be fine but on a huge project it’s something I would not want to have to do every time I opened the app. This has to be something they will change.
When you mention importing or flipping media, I take flipping to mean transcoding the files as opposed to just copying…. Like FCP has to do when it remove the mxf wrappers upon import and makes them a Quicktime file or like Avid has to do when it imports any Quicktime into OMF project. It is faster for Avid to import P2 media and copy it to local storage (no relinking) than FCP to import via the Transfer tool. But to me, the control the FCP Transfer tool gives you gives it the edge.
Interesting stuff on the XDCam. I look forward to XDCam becoming bigger in the market as I like a lot of what i see with it. As for FCPs copying of Avid stuff, copy they do but they often do it better in the end. I wish it would make Avid improve their products a lot quicker.
Tuesday, November 20th 2007 at 4:33 pm
Can you tell me about your workflow using P2 on an Avid for Off-line/On-Line. Specifically were you want to decomposed and import only the used portions of your footage uncompressed? We use Adrenaline’s and Symphony’s, our client tend to bring in large amounts of footage and the media needs to stay on-line for extended periods of time.
Thanks.
Wednesday, November 21st 2007 at 6:53 pm
Brad, for the P2 stuff we do on Avid it’s always at the full rez, we don’t do an offline/online workflow. And to be honest most P2 stuff we do I will do on FCP as it’s much easier to work with and I can actually get it to tape in HD with the Kona card set-up. To me the beauty of P2 is you can bring it all in full rez as DVCPRO HD doesn’t take up that much space.
Saturday, December 15th 2007 at 3:17 pm
hey i am trying to move mfx files from one system to another
and getting metadata crash
i am migrating from fcp to avid
help?
Saturday, December 15th 2007 at 3:17 pm
hey i am trying to move mfx files from one system to another
and getting metadata crash
i am migrating from fcp to avid
help?
Saturday, December 29th 2007 at 2:57 pm
john, were those mxf files created on FCP? FCP can’t really create mxf files….. where did they originally come from? If they are from a camera then it should work. You should search around Avid forums for some help. I’m not sure what the issue could be.
Monday, December 31st 2007 at 12:51 am
I use DVCPRO HD AG-HVX202EN for recoding. I had problem material with strobe effect when playback at FCP and Avid. Why?
Thursday, June 26th 2008 at 4:45 pm
I’m having same issue with turning Avid off and P2 files go Offline. My problem is that how do I reconnect? The “relink” function doesn’t seem to work, how do I get back all my logging and edits? This surely can’t be….they don’t expect you to start from scratch each time the App turns off?
Thanks.
Thursday, June 26th 2008 at 8:06 pm
Warren, you have to import the media to your media drive to have them stay online. Don’t use the Clips to bin … but rather Import > Media and they will stay online.
Tuesday, June 30th 2009 at 7:57 am
As an editor with over 20 years of experience having worked on Media Composer, Symphony and Final Cut Pro…FCP by far, outperforms Avid.
Our Avid Symphony is the clunkiest, most backward system I’ve ever tried to edit on. The massive hurdles you have to jump through to do the simpliest of things on Avid make no sense. Avid is obviously designed by engineers who don’t seem to have a clue about the end user experience, where as Apple is always considering the end user and making processes easy and intuitive.
I’m reading on here the problem people have reconnecting or relinking media. Yes, it has yet to work for me either. I’ve never had a problem in FCP relinking files. EXTREMELY easy. We aren’t willing to pay Avid’s $8,000 service contract fee (we have two systems Symphony and Composer) to have them work with us to solve issues that shouldn’t be issues…like simply relinking footage.
I’ll take a FCP system anyday…so I can actually spend my time editing, not troubleshooting simply RECONNECTING media….