Shane’s Adobe Premiere Pro questions are good ones
By S Simmons. Filed in Adobe Premiere Pro, Mac software |
I was recently having an email conversation with Shane Ross of Little Frog in Hi Def about Adobe Premiere Pro CS4. It was discussed on episode 2 of That Post Show by myself, John Flowers and Paul Zadie. Most of us really liked what we’ve seen of Premiere Pro CS4 thus far, but that was admittedly the shiny new features and just (at least for me) limited playtime in the application. Shane asked the hard questions that many other editors I’m sure are asking. Does the app have “all the basics that I as a storyteller crave?” I knew some of the answers, but not all of them so I dug around a bit deeper with Premiere Pro CS4 to try and find out.
How does it handle long form cutting?
A hard question to answer since I haven’t done any long form with the application. If you have done any long-from jobs with CS4 or CS3 then please comment below and let the world know. I’ve done a few shorter project and web spots in PPro CS4 and it handles those as well. But I have a feeling that I would not want to cut a long-form in PPro CS4. Maybe that’s because I’m not familiar enough with the app yet but I can say that is just doesn’t yet have the feel that it is ready for long-form. Again, if you are doing some long-from in PPro then please comment below. But this brings up the second, and the big, question?
Media Management?
This is the $100,000 question for long-form editors. If you have hours and hours and hours of media accessed over months and months and months of an edit then the app has to be able to keep up with it all. Especially if you move hard drives or use multiple editors. Avid is the master. Final Cut Pro limps along. PP CS4 is very similar to FCP. You set capture scratch folders to where captured media and rendered media should reside (click on the images for a larger view):
PPro is unlike Avid in that it does not copy or convert media that you import or drag and drop into a project to the scratch folder, only captures and renders seem to go there. That’s just like FCP. It’s also like FCP in that you are prompted with a similar reconnection (or link as PPro calls it) dialog box when media is offline:
It is similar to FCP with one big exception, there’s no button to have PPro automatically scan a drive, or all drives, looking for the clips that are missing. Not a big deal if you are looking for a file or two but if you have media scattered all over a lot of different drives and directories then this will get old very fast … even older than doing the same thing in FCP. Once you do find the file it will reconnect all of the media that is missing in that directory so that’s a plus. Here’s where it gets strange. I tired removing a few clips from my media directory as well as renaming one of the clips. When PPro prompted me with the above relinking option it would not let me force a relink to my renamed clip, nor would it allow me to Skip or Offline the clip. This feels like a bug. But when I told it to Skip All or Offline All it still found the clips. This is when the clips were moved up one level in the directory. When moved to a different directory I had to manually point to them before it would find them. When I again renamed one of the clips and moved it to a different directory, this time it let me force relink the clip with a different name. It seems to know a bit more about where the media is located than FCP but if I was going to do a large long-from edit in PPro I would test its media management much more extensively.
It does have a Project Manager, similar to FCP Media Manager:
It also has a bin column called Video Usage and Audio Usage that tracks which clips have been used in an edit and how many times a piece of each clip has been used:
Every time you duplicate an edit sequence these numbers go up btw so it tracks for all edits in a project.
How about capturing and subclipping?
Capturing is similar to FCP as well. The capture tool looks a lot more FCP like than Avid:
Subclipping is there with both the Make Subclip and Edit Subclip command. Make Subclip makes a subclip and prompts a rename dialog box and a different icon.
The Edit Subclip command is very nice for just that purpose, editing the parameters of a subclip or converting it to a master clip:
Locators?
PPro does have it’s own version of locators called markers. What throws me for an initial loop is they call IN and OUT points markers as well. As in they say Set Sequence Marker > In:
Why not just call it an IN point? Then they have both numbered and unnumbered markers. Once you set a numbered marker you can then set the Next Available Numbered marker and they will count up from there:
The above image has unnumbered markers, numbered markers, DVD chapter markers, red Flash cue points and clip markers. In PPro you have separate markers for clips in the sequence and for the sequence. Sequence markers are the ones that appear at the top of the timeline. You can also open a dialog box and set a marker duration (like in FCP) and the various attributes of your markers:
Match frame?
Match framing is there, you push the M button by default and the clip matches to the source monitor/viewer. It isn’t nearly as intuitive as Avid’s hierarchical match framing but it works about as well as FCP’s … which if you come from Avid’s match framing capabilities isn’t that well. The strange thing is there seems to be no mention of the match frame keystroke in Premiere’s menus. And the only mention of the phrase match frame is under the Clip menu:
This command is similar to Sync Point Editing in Avid or Replace Edit in FCP. You have to have a clip selected in the timeline for this menu command to work so I guess it’s way more like Replace Edit in FCP. When using what most editors know as the normal Match Frame command PPro will open your clip in the source monitor for whatever the uppermost video level you have highlighted in the timeline. Unfortunately you can’t match frame a subclip and then match frame again from the source monitor to the master clip. No ones seems to have gotten that one right yet except for Avid.
Find bin?
Can’t seem to find a find bin like command anywhere. The FCP equivalent is reveal master clip. Can’t find that either. You can right+click a clip in the timeline and choose Revel in Project which is a find bin from the timeline I just can’t find a way to do that from the source monitor/viewer. You can probably map that command to your keyboard but the PPro keyboard customization menu is a nightmare.
Timecode overlay?
Can’t seem to find a timecode overlay or a timecode tool to view the source timecode of the clips in your edit. That’s really a must have option. Hopefully that is on the to do list but with the Adobe layoffs we might not get it anytime soon.
So there’s an answer to most of Shane’s questions. If I missed anything or was unable to find something that does indeed exist please let us know in the comments below. All of Shane’s quetions are great questions that I had about Premiere Pro CS4 as well. I loved Shane’s comment that PPro’s interface looks kind of like the “controls of a shuttle.” It is cluttered and there’s tons of stuff everywhere you look but PPro does have a very customizable interface with windows that can be docked and moved, colors that can be changed and layouts that can be saved. It could probably become less cluttered with some work. I think it’s easy to see that PPro CS4 is way more Final Cut Pro-like than Avid-like. It’s effect editing and graphic capabilities might even surpass those of FCP and with its tight After Effects integration I could certainly see a lot of editors using PPro for short form epks, commercials, or anything that requires a lot of motion graphics or finishing in the NLE. In other words it feels like it could take a piece of the FCP market long before it could take marketshare from Avid.
Tags: Adobe Premiere Pro
Thursday, December 4th 2008 at 10:37 am
Great article. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions from your perspective. I respect it as you know Avid and FCP…the article shows that.
So from what I can tell from this article and from the demos I have seen and word of mouth from other people is that this application is great for short form work, and web delivery videos that need embedded links and videos that need lots of compositing. It is the perfect tool for one large editing community. And that is great, because Avid and FCP don’t fit the bill for many in that sector..and they are vocal about it.
I am just tired of the “which is better” arguments that pop up all the time. They are ALL better…in the particular area in which you are working. Just know what that area is, what the needs are, and buy the tool that fulfills that need. Right now I need the transcription option and a few other features, so I might get Premiere for that.
Thanks for answering my questions Scott.
Thursday, December 4th 2008 at 2:09 pm
you are right in the “which is better” does get old. I’m guilty of the debate too though I never say one is better than the other, You said it best when you said they are ALL better!
Thursday, December 4th 2008 at 8:53 pm
I would love to add to the conversation, but I’m still using CS3. I feel I can comment on two of the items above however since I use a couple in CS3. I’m also an all-inclusive production center so the interface/linking capabilities between Pr, AE and the design apps are just plain outstanding. Most of my work is short form and I have lots of experience with FCP and don’t see a huge difference. This is simply the tool for the job right now.
Anyway, the first is the media linking/relinking. In CS3 you can’t place the new file you want to link to in the folder of the original file you were working on. It’ll never work. From what it sounds like CS4 is the same way. So no, not a bug. I was doing some offline editing of low-res footage and wanted to relink the edited files to the high-res clips for output. Well, I originally dropped the high-res files in my project folder and beat my head on the wall for about an half hour until I figured out what was up. I probably would question any production manager or producer if there were files for a project all over a network that just sounds like bad management to me. I have two macs I move stuff around on all the time with two sets of drives. I haven’t had any issues, unless I’m saving my crap all over the place.
The second is timecode overlay. In CS3 it’s under Effects>Video>Timecode. I just pull it over and drop it on the clip. I can input my own timecode or use the original source code. Is that not under the same folder in CS4? I use this feature often since it’s easier for my clientele to preview and jot down notes on an edit rather than use the .pdf feature (which is hella cool I might add).
Finally, the ‘markers’ comment had me chuckling a little bit. I’m from a pro-audio background: Protools, Samplitude, Nuendo etc. and at my last use, they were all called markers. So it seems as if “locaters” is an Apple thing or something. When I first cut my teeth with Logic, I couldn’t figure out how anything was done because Apple seemed to have taken the design and tweaked it without looking at any other audio app in the world. That said, Adobe’s Soundbooth is about the most worthless app on the planet. I don’t know what they were smoking when they put that together.
Good write-up. Thanks. I didn’t feel the new features were worth upgrade to CS4…still don’t
Thursday, December 4th 2008 at 9:07 pm
Thanks JR. The timecode effects is like the timecode filter in FCP but not an overlay like Shane is talking about or the timecode tool in Avid. These are to show you all layers of source timecode in the timeline. Something equivalent to Avid’s timecode tool or the option+z timecode overlay in FCP (i think it’s option+z) doesn’t seem to exist in PPro.
Friday, December 5th 2008 at 6:52 am
Now, if only CS5 would have a Color killer.
Sunday, December 7th 2008 at 11:12 am
The fact that Premiere doesn’t copy an imported file into the project media is, to me, not really an issue. As an editor, I’ve made it part of my job to copy any sound fx or new video media into the project folder, but I put it into a different folder from the captured media. In other words, if I render an effect out of After Effects, I’ll create a NEW folder in the project folder with the name “Graphics” or “VFX Shots.” In a way, I kinda dislike the way Avid picks random names for the MXF files and bunches them all together. That kinda destroys the “loose” file organization created the the NLE (Premiere or FCP) and you don’t really know the contents of each MXF file.
The MXF files are basically big globs of footage referenced by the clips in the Avid project.
I will say that Avid is definitely more stable though, and that benefit obviously outweighs the above “issue.”
I’ve done some long form work in Premiere and it seems to handle it well, but Avid is DEFINITELY more stable and handles it much better.
Monday, December 8th 2008 at 12:46 am
Its seems in the discussion there seems a level or surprise or even excitement at discovering that premiere has XXXX feature just like FCP. Are we forgetting that FCP was Copied from Premiere….? That Premiere was the first major software-only NLE; that it’s developer Randy Ubilos left Adobe to go to Macromedia to make KeyGrip to do for them what he had done for Adobe, only Macromedia sold the product to Apple who re-badged it Final Cut Pro.
If there’s a number of features in premiere that feel familiar to FCP users it because Prmeiere is the Father of FCP and that FCP owes virtually everything it has to Premiere, including most of it’s interface. the difference is that, after much neglect and nearly driving Premiere into the ground Adobe finally got back behind the wheel of Premiere as a pro NLE and steered it back to the light. I dont believe there can be any doubt that right now on paper, Premiere Pro CS4 is the most forward thinking NLE on the market, a product that shows more foresight and innovation than either FCP or Avid have managed to conjure up int he past 3 years.
Inter-app operations, integrated tool-sets, plugin architectures and especially metadata management all step way beyond any NLE on the market right now. Premiere’s certainly not perfect but it’s definitely showing the way forward whilst us poor FCP users languish in Apple’s, sadly all to recurrent, neglect and wait for Avid’s new thinking to prove to be something other than marketing speak to resurrect a free-falling market position.
With the new ability to open FCP projects in Premiere I think you’ll find many FCP users step in the Premiere pro world as a gateway to After Effects and end up staying for the significantly more powerful and flexible editing environment. And this will be the Best Thing Ever for FCP users because the thing that kills us everytime is the blithe apathy that FCP users have. FCP users seem to refuse to criticise FCP when it’ an application in dire need of heavy criticism. FCP’s major failings (Audio, Media Management, Format Flexibility, Real-Time performance, no true 4k suppourt just to name a few) will never be addressed unless FCP users starting getting angry and demanding better. Im hopeful that as premiere pro is taken seriously (as it should) that Apple may get the kick up the arse they sorely deserve and fix the deep issues in FCP that have been there so very long.
Cheers
Mike
Monday, December 8th 2008 at 7:00 am
Great comments Mike. I think that since so many FCP users have come to editing for the first time they are unaware of FCP’s history and origins. Anything that is different from what FCP does seems to them to be the wrong way of doing things. I’m like you that I wish FCP people would get up in arms over the many problems that Apple has never addressed, maybe that would get them moving forward.
Wednesday, December 10th 2008 at 2:14 pm
Premiere has been pushing the fact that it can share projects with FCP and Avid with its recent update. My experience this week was that a Premiere AAF wouldn’t open on MC 2.8 or 3.0, an Edl of the same seq constantly crashed EDL manager, and it only seems to export audio OMF’S not video. I ended up having to rebuild a seq from scratch, looking at the timeline on the premiere Cpu, haven’t done that in a long time. My recommendation is to approach Premiere to Avid movement with extreme caution. Premiere certainly looks nice though.
Sunday, January 4th 2009 at 4:53 pm
I have the CS3 and have a quick question. How do you move the entire video back? I want to add a title sequence to the beginning of the video, but I can’t seem to figure out how to shift all audios and videos back a bit. I know how to delete space, but is there a way to add more?
Thanks!
Monday, January 5th 2009 at 2:37 pm
Casey, you could insert black video (or any other clip) at the beginning and all the rest of the clips in the sequence will move further down the timeline. Or you could use the Track Select tool, and hold down the Shift key to move all clips to the right and open up a space at the beginning.
Monday, January 5th 2009 at 2:50 pm
Timecode overlay: In CS3, Premiere has a Timecode filter which you can drop onto a clip, or a nested sequence clip if you want to create a timecode window burn for an entire sequence. This timecode overlay appears in the Program monitor and the video output. CS4 has a much better view of source timecodes in the Info panel. Here, you can see all the source timecodes for every clip that is currently under the playback head. These update in real time as you drag the playback head or move a clip under the playback head. The Info panel timecodes are stacked just as the clips are arranged in the timeline, so it’s a 1:1 correlation.
Monday, January 5th 2009 at 9:36 pm
Thanks for those comments David. I will check out the timecode in the Info panel.
Thursday, April 16th 2009 at 7:47 am
I have a clip that travels from right to left and I would like to flip it to go left to right, the old versions of Premier was capable of doing that, but for the life of me, I cannot find how to accomplish this in PPro CS4, can anybody give me advise on how to do this?
Saturday, April 18th 2009 at 6:55 am
I’ve never looked for that feature in Premiere Pro. But I would think it would be under motion effects? Reverse?